Comments on: The propaganda of the deed http://creativitymachine.net/2005/02/08/the-propaganda-of-the-deed/ Thu, 10 Nov 2011 04:22:24 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: creativity/machine » on having nothing to say http://creativitymachine.net/2005/02/08/the-propaganda-of-the-deed/comment-page-1/#comment-24573 creativity/machine » on having nothing to say Thu, 18 May 2006 23:01:26 +0000 http://creativitymachine.net/2005/02/08/the-propaganda-of-the-deed/#comment-24573 [...] Which got me thinking again, if not talking, about the idea of ‘presence‘ or of ‘becoming real’ as a key element of social communication. Offline, some of the greatest communicators are great not because of their verbosity, but because of the sheer energy and warmth of their presence: online, the only way to mark presence in both the temporal and [meta]physical sense is to talk…and talk, and talk, and talk. For the last few weeks, my students have had to engage in a class discussion via a chatroom, which seemed to encourage the reticent to speak, but by the students’ own admission led to a whole lot of talking without a lot of listening - participation for participation’s sake. Which in turn reminds me of an ongoing worry I have about where and how and for whom the read-and-write (as opposed to read-only or write-only) literacies are going to emerge in new media. Where ‘reading’ and ‘writing’ are not to be taken literally [pardon the pun] but are metaphors for catching and leaving traces of all kinds. [...] [...] Which got me thinking again, if not talking, about the idea of ‘presence‘ or of ‘becoming real’ as a key element of social communication. Offline, some of the greatest communicators are great not because of their verbosity, but because of the sheer energy and warmth of their presence: online, the only way to mark presence in both the temporal and [meta]physical sense is to talk…and talk, and talk, and talk. For the last few weeks, my students have had to engage in a class discussion via a chatroom, which seemed to encourage the reticent to speak, but by the students’ own admission led to a whole lot of talking without a lot of listening – participation for participation’s sake. Which in turn reminds me of an ongoing worry I have about where and how and for whom the read-and-write (as opposed to read-only or write-only) literacies are going to emerge in new media. Where ‘reading’ and ‘writing’ are not to be taken literally [pardon the pun] but are metaphors for catching and leaving traces of all kinds. [...]

]]> By: Luca http://creativitymachine.net/2005/02/08/the-propaganda-of-the-deed/comment-page-1/#comment-263 Luca Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://creativitymachine.net/2005/02/08/the-propaganda-of-the-deed/#comment-263 Dear Jane, I feel a little bit less enthusiastic about new media and authenticity. You really think that people read blog in a different way from what they do for movies or Tv fiction? I'm not so sure that is really possible to perceive "authenticity" in any kind of mediated communication. I was quite impressed from Justin Hall's video, it's an extraordinary field to observe how people perceive blog's reality. Well, some people comment Justin's media saying "Powerful" "You Rocks!"... and so on. What are they observing? A real "emotional breakdown" o just a media product? Is Justin touching them? I feel/think that they are relating to Justin's dark-night in the same way they relate to a CSI episode. That means (from the audience point of view) to be able to use the represented reality to start self-observation and identity construction processes. That means to be able to say "hey Justin, I had my own emotional breakdown some years ago...". Observing media to be able to observe ourself. The authenticity problem, of course, occurs when we look at the bloggers (or at people who makes media); but once media are in the mass communication system they could only be observed trough the narration lens (that implies a second order observation). A <a href="http://nextmedia.blogspot.com/">friend of mine</a> said that blogs (and new media) are mass media for the masses; well that's when observe the production process, but when you go to the audience the only thing that change is that the distinction between production and fruition is just a temporal distinction. Luca Dear Jane,

I feel a little bit less enthusiastic about new media and authenticity. You really think that people read blog in a different way from what they do for movies or Tv fiction? I’m not so sure that is really possible to perceive “authenticity” in any kind of mediated communication. I was quite impressed from Justin Hall’s video, it’s an extraordinary field to observe how people perceive blog’s reality. Well, some people comment Justin’s media saying “Powerful” “You Rocks!”… and so on. What are they observing? A real “emotional breakdown” o just a media product? Is Justin touching them? I feel/think that they are relating to Justin’s dark-night in the same way they relate to a CSI episode. That means (from the audience point of view) to be able to use the represented reality to start self-observation and identity construction processes. That means to be able to say “hey Justin, I had my own emotional breakdown some years ago…”. Observing media to be able to observe ourself. The authenticity problem, of course, occurs when we look at the bloggers (or at people who makes media); but once media are in the mass communication system they could only be observed trough the narration lens (that implies a second order observation). A friend of mine said that blogs (and new media) are mass media for the masses; well that’s when observe the production process, but when you go to the audience the only thing that change is that the distinction between production and fruition is just a temporal distinction.

Luca

]]> By: Christian McCrea http://creativitymachine.net/2005/02/08/the-propaganda-of-the-deed/comment-page-1/#comment-264 Christian McCrea Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://creativitymachine.net/2005/02/08/the-propaganda-of-the-deed/#comment-264 "the only refuge we have against communication fraud is the propaganda of the deed." Stunning. Then again, my email address *is* 'saccharin metric', so maybe I'm biased. I've got a bit of a sweetness-of-gesture obsession, which you can see in not-at-all sensical action at http://hypertext.rmit.edu.au/~Mccrea/ I will go to the library today and forage for the book; it seems to be precisely what I'm looking for. Thanks. “the only refuge we have against communication fraud is the propaganda of the deed.”

Stunning. Then again, my email address *is* ‘saccharin metric’, so maybe I’m biased. I’ve got a bit of a sweetness-of-gesture obsession, which you can see in not-at-all sensical action at http://hypertext.rmit.edu.au/~Mccrea/

I will go to the library today and forage for the book; it seems to be precisely what I’m looking for. Thanks.

]]> By: David Brake http://creativitymachine.net/2005/02/08/the-propaganda-of-the-deed/comment-page-1/#comment-265 David Brake Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://creativitymachine.net/2005/02/08/the-propaganda-of-the-deed/#comment-265 Oddly enough Roger Silverstone suggested I read this and I'm going to be taking a look at it shortly. Tune in to the blog and I may end up posting something about it too! (Will try to remember to trackback). Oddly enough Roger Silverstone suggested I read this and I’m going to be taking a look at it shortly. Tune in to the blog and I may end up posting something about it too! (Will try to remember to trackback).

]]> By: Luca http://creativitymachine.net/2005/02/08/the-propaganda-of-the-deed/comment-page-1/#comment-266 Luca Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://creativitymachine.net/2005/02/08/the-propaganda-of-the-deed/#comment-266 I'm trying to go trough the problem of authenticity for a while and I'm quite sure that blogs are a good field to observe these phenomena. Of course I approach communication a and CmC from a constructivistic/autopoiethic point of view. I guess that observing communication as it occurs on blogs is observing 3 different moment: the production; the audience experience; the authors experience (self observation). All of these processes contain something interesting: 1) producing media about ourself implies a dramatization of our own life and experiences, dramatization that is often obtained using mass communication strategies. (It would be interesting to look at communicative strategies like suspense, unexpected events... adopted in blogs). 2) Observe what is narrated could carry the audience to start identity construction processes based upon content of these narration... that's not necessary different from mass media. So authenticity and intimacy could exist only in audience's eyes. Last point, that maybe is the most interesting, is what happen when author and audience could be the same person, how identity changes when we've got the opportunity to observe the history of our thoughts? is it different when the observer observe it's own observations? :-) still working on it (sooner or later I'll find the time to translate something in English and to set up a blog) I’m trying to go trough the problem of authenticity for a while and I’m quite sure that blogs are a good field to observe these phenomena. Of course I approach communication a and CmC from a constructivistic/autopoiethic point of view. I guess that observing communication as it occurs on blogs is observing 3 different moment: the production; the audience experience; the authors experience (self observation). All of these processes contain something interesting: 1) producing media about ourself implies a dramatization of our own life and experiences, dramatization that is often obtained using mass communication strategies. (It would be interesting to look at communicative strategies like suspense, unexpected events… adopted in blogs). 2) Observe what is narrated could carry the audience to start identity construction processes based upon content of these narration… that’s not necessary different from mass media. So authenticity and intimacy could exist only in audience’s eyes. Last point, that maybe is the most interesting, is what happen when author and audience could be the same person, how identity changes when we’ve got the opportunity to observe the history of our thoughts? is it different when the observer observe it’s own observations? :-) still working on it (sooner or later I’ll find the time to translate something in English and to set up a blog)

]]> By: Jean http://creativitymachine.net/2005/02/08/the-propaganda-of-the-deed/comment-page-1/#comment-267 Jean Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://creativitymachine.net/2005/02/08/the-propaganda-of-the-deed/#comment-267 Luca, sounds really interesting - I think you're getting at something close to what I'm interested in terms of the breakdown of the production-consumption divide. In fact, I think a lot of conceptual problems in trying to understand digital culture are caused by the "media" metaphor, especially ideas about spectatorship and audiences. I prefer to think about a continuum of participation, which can be peripheral (reading a blog post), through to intensely networked participation...I think I explain it a bit better in today's post (above) Further to that, I think Justin has always been more about the hyperreal than the authentic, and he knows it... Luca, sounds really interesting – I think you’re getting at something close to what I’m interested in terms of the breakdown of the production-consumption divide. In fact, I think a lot of conceptual problems in trying to understand digital culture are caused by the “media” metaphor, especially ideas about spectatorship and audiences. I prefer to think about a continuum of participation, which can be peripheral (reading a blog post), through to intensely networked participation…I think I explain it a bit better in today’s post (above)

Further to that, I think Justin has always been more about the hyperreal than the authentic, and he knows it…

]]> By: Saccharin Metric http://creativitymachine.net/2005/02/08/the-propaganda-of-the-deed/comment-page-1/#comment-269 Saccharin Metric Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://creativitymachine.net/2005/02/08/the-propaganda-of-the-deed/#comment-269 <strong>The Hieroglyphic Breath of Justin Hall</strong> I'm not sure exactly what's happening, except that I'm having an intense experience of turning inward. I guess my web site design now reflects that. It's difficult, but it's not unpleasant. - Justin Hall, comment on Links.net, 10th Jan, 2005... The Hieroglyphic Breath of Justin Hall

I’m not sure exactly what’s happening, except that I’m having an intense experience of turning inward. I guess my web site design now reflects that. It’s difficult, but it’s not unpleasant. – Justin Hall, comment on Links.net, 10th Jan, 2005…

]]> By: Saccharin Metric http://creativitymachine.net/2005/02/08/the-propaganda-of-the-deed/comment-page-1/#comment-270 Saccharin Metric Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://creativitymachine.net/2005/02/08/the-propaganda-of-the-deed/#comment-270 <strong>The Hieroglyphic Breath of Justin Hall</strong> I'm not sure exactly what's happening, except that I'm having an intense experience of turning inward. I guess my web site design now reflects that. It's difficult, but it's not unpleasant. - Justin Hall, comment on Links.net, 10th Jan, 2005... The Hieroglyphic Breath of Justin Hall

I’m not sure exactly what’s happening, except that I’m having an intense experience of turning inward. I guess my web site design now reflects that. It’s difficult, but it’s not unpleasant. – Justin Hall, comment on Links.net, 10th Jan, 2005…

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