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	<title>Comments on: further to the myspace/facebook class debate</title>
	<link>http://creativitymachine.net/2007/06/29/further-to-the-myspacefacebook-class-debate/</link>
	<description>A personal research blog about vernacular creativity and technology by Jean Burgess.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 17:17:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Hot Myspace Layouts</title>
		<link>http://creativitymachine.net/2007/06/29/further-to-the-myspacefacebook-class-debate/#comment-47930</link>
		<dc:creator>Hot Myspace Layouts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 20:59:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://creativitymachine.net/2007/06/29/further-to-the-myspacefacebook-class-debate/#comment-47930</guid>
		<description>I've been a web master for resource sites for along time. Customization definitely plays apart of Myspace's success. Facebook apps are clunky at best and don't encompass the level of personalization that Myspace does...what's one widget on a page compared to a full layouts, graphics, the new Myspace apps and everything else?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been a web master for resource sites for along time. Customization definitely plays apart of Myspace&#8217;s success. Facebook apps are clunky at best and don&#8217;t encompass the level of personalization that Myspace does&#8230;what&#8217;s one widget on a page compared to a full layouts, graphics, the new Myspace apps and everything else?</p>
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		<title>By: Twist</title>
		<link>http://creativitymachine.net/2007/06/29/further-to-the-myspacefacebook-class-debate/#comment-47611</link>
		<dc:creator>Twist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 02:04:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://creativitymachine.net/2007/06/29/further-to-the-myspacefacebook-class-debate/#comment-47611</guid>
		<description>I would not touch www.redbubble.com or www.deviantart.com. I find that www.myartspace.com, yes myARTspace, is a bit more professional than the rest. It has been compared to a sexy version of Artnet... you can't go wrong with that!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would not touch <a href="http://www.redbubble.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.redbubble.com</a> or <a href="http://www.deviantart.com." rel="nofollow">http://www.deviantart.com.</a> I find that <a href="http://www.myartspace.com," rel="nofollow">http://www.myartspace.com,</a> yes myARTspace, is a bit more professional than the rest. It has been compared to a sexy version of Artnet&#8230; you can&#8217;t go wrong with that!</p>
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		<title>By: Anne</title>
		<link>http://creativitymachine.net/2007/06/29/further-to-the-myspacefacebook-class-debate/#comment-45053</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2007 01:20:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://creativitymachine.net/2007/06/29/further-to-the-myspacefacebook-class-debate/#comment-45053</guid>
		<description>Facebook's lack of options for personalisation sucks, and other things suck as well... particularly the applications frenzy and lack of option to block the viral marketing chaos (read: the constant stream of applications invitations and information about friends' applications) out from one's news feeds and notifications. 

However, Facebook is also a very practical tool for organising contacts and keeping in touch, and with regard to viral marketing chaos, MySpace is so much worse, anyway (I had a MySpace profile first). 

99 % of MySpace profiles are unbelievable ugly and shows a terrifying lack of flair for visual design, or maybe it is just the way the software transforms users' visual ideas into tasteless, blinking, disturbing, hopeless, accumulating crap. Moreover, 99 % of all "friends" on MySpace are viral marketers or stupid American teenagers with fake identities and no real life of any substance. On Facebook, everyone in my network is someone I know in real life. With one exception though... but in that case I know her real name, employer, job role and work history, have read her postings over years in another forum, and interviewed her friend for a student  project.  My Facebook network contains only former classmates and colleges, family members, friends' friends who I have met in parties or been bushwalking with. The privacy settings protect my network and profile from search engines and filter out external noise. MySpace can't compete with that...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Facebook&#8217;s lack of options for personalisation sucks, and other things suck as well&#8230; particularly the applications frenzy and lack of option to block the viral marketing chaos (read: the constant stream of applications invitations and information about friends&#8217; applications) out from one&#8217;s news feeds and notifications. </p>
<p>However, Facebook is also a very practical tool for organising contacts and keeping in touch, and with regard to viral marketing chaos, MySpace is so much worse, anyway (I had a MySpace profile first). </p>
<p>99 % of MySpace profiles are unbelievable ugly and shows a terrifying lack of flair for visual design, or maybe it is just the way the software transforms users&#8217; visual ideas into tasteless, blinking, disturbing, hopeless, accumulating crap. Moreover, 99 % of all &#8220;friends&#8221; on MySpace are viral marketers or stupid American teenagers with fake identities and no real life of any substance. On Facebook, everyone in my network is someone I know in real life. With one exception though&#8230; but in that case I know her real name, employer, job role and work history, have read her postings over years in another forum, and interviewed her friend for a student  project.  My Facebook network contains only former classmates and colleges, family members, friends&#8217; friends who I have met in parties or been bushwalking with. The privacy settings protect my network and profile from search engines and filter out external noise. MySpace can&#8217;t compete with that&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jean</title>
		<link>http://creativitymachine.net/2007/06/29/further-to-the-myspacefacebook-class-debate/#comment-43084</link>
		<dc:creator>Jean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 08:06:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://creativitymachine.net/2007/06/29/further-to-the-myspacefacebook-class-debate/#comment-43084</guid>
		<description>Thanks so much for another micro case study - v. interesting. I'm fascinated by these relations among technological 'affordances', interaction design, aesthetics, cultural value, social network effects, etc on particular cultural formations. As you can tell! 

I wonder what the trajectory has been at deviantart.com in similar terms? I haven't spend enough time there to know.  I know there were some agonistic debates over commercialisation, with tropes of 'betrayal' of the original subculture/early adopters. 

By the way, I still think that the particular culture that has emerged/been cultivated in Flickr is why it is perceieved as a success by, not only the core enthusiasts who populate it, but also a wider 'public' who want to find 'good images' - where 'good', because of the interestingness thing, doesn't mean a reflection of elitist cultural values at all, but is  genuinely popular and includes things like 'discussability' as well as prettiness.  

Anyway, this is a much longer conversation - let's continue it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks so much for another micro case study - v. interesting. I&#8217;m fascinated by these relations among technological &#8216;affordances&#8217;, interaction design, aesthetics, cultural value, social network effects, etc on particular cultural formations. As you can tell! </p>
<p>I wonder what the trajectory has been at deviantart.com in similar terms? I haven&#8217;t spend enough time there to know.  I know there were some agonistic debates over commercialisation, with tropes of &#8216;betrayal&#8217; of the original subculture/early adopters. </p>
<p>By the way, I still think that the particular culture that has emerged/been cultivated in Flickr is why it is perceieved as a success by, not only the core enthusiasts who populate it, but also a wider &#8216;public&#8217; who want to find &#8216;good images&#8217; - where &#8216;good&#8217;, because of the interestingness thing, doesn&#8217;t mean a reflection of elitist cultural values at all, but is  genuinely popular and includes things like &#8216;discussability&#8217; as well as prettiness.  </p>
<p>Anyway, this is a much longer conversation - let&#8217;s continue it!</p>
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		<title>By: dogpossum</title>
		<link>http://creativitymachine.net/2007/06/29/further-to-the-myspacefacebook-class-debate/#comment-43059</link>
		<dc:creator>dogpossum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:43:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://creativitymachine.net/2007/06/29/further-to-the-myspacefacebook-class-debate/#comment-43059</guid>
		<description>This is interesting stuff, Jean.

There are a few discussions about 'art' going on in the new red bubble dot com community atm - an 'arts' community (initially conceived as a marketing scheme for printing art and photos but _actually_ hijacked by 'ordinary' punters who like sharing their pictures with online buddies and certainly don't meet the standards of turtle-neck types) which is negotiating its way through decisions about the 'type' of art it should be selling and promoting.

It seems that the inevitable (and, for me, quite wonderful) push has been 'downwards' - as an example, there was muted disgust about members using the site to upload candid pics from camera phones for printing. The High Art types were Not Amused. Apparently 'art' means 'professional', involving stacks of expensive technology and carefully managed (and marked-by-class) 'talent'. Not for scruffs, in other words.

Yet truly 'professional' artists (whether photographers, illustrated or what-e-ver) avoid the site for very fact that it makes it impossible to 'control' your art: exclusivity is all in the 'art world' and a social networking site centered on what is (essentially) community art practice and discussion really doesn't provide that.

The question now is whether the scruffs will actually keep the business afloat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is interesting stuff, Jean.</p>
<p>There are a few discussions about &#8216;art&#8217; going on in the new red bubble dot com community atm - an &#8216;arts&#8217; community (initially conceived as a marketing scheme for printing art and photos but _actually_ hijacked by &#8216;ordinary&#8217; punters who like sharing their pictures with online buddies and certainly don&#8217;t meet the standards of turtle-neck types) which is negotiating its way through decisions about the &#8216;type&#8217; of art it should be selling and promoting.</p>
<p>It seems that the inevitable (and, for me, quite wonderful) push has been &#8216;downwards&#8217; - as an example, there was muted disgust about members using the site to upload candid pics from camera phones for printing. The High Art types were Not Amused. Apparently &#8216;art&#8217; means &#8216;professional&#8217;, involving stacks of expensive technology and carefully managed (and marked-by-class) &#8216;talent&#8217;. Not for scruffs, in other words.</p>
<p>Yet truly &#8216;professional&#8217; artists (whether photographers, illustrated or what-e-ver) avoid the site for very fact that it makes it impossible to &#8216;control&#8217; your art: exclusivity is all in the &#8216;art world&#8217; and a social networking site centered on what is (essentially) community art practice and discussion really doesn&#8217;t provide that.</p>
<p>The question now is whether the scruffs will actually keep the business afloat.</p>
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		<title>By: cass</title>
		<link>http://creativitymachine.net/2007/06/29/further-to-the-myspacefacebook-class-debate/#comment-42717</link>
		<dc:creator>cass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2007 12:12:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://creativitymachine.net/2007/06/29/further-to-the-myspacefacebook-class-debate/#comment-42717</guid>
		<description>hey, i read this article with interest, however the above link in the comment doesnt work. i'll look it up by other means. im new to this discussion strand, find the 'aspirational' theorising interesting, have u had a look at what is happeneing in practice, i suspect that theres a lot of people who use both simultaneously and exploit features from each that satisfy different desires.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hey, i read this article with interest, however the above link in the comment doesnt work. i&#8217;ll look it up by other means. im new to this discussion strand, find the &#8216;aspirational&#8217; theorising interesting, have u had a look at what is happeneing in practice, i suspect that theres a lot of people who use both simultaneously and exploit features from each that satisfy different desires.</p>
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		<title>By: nmrg - blog from the new media research group in RIMAD at the University of Bedfordshire. » Blog Archive » Further adventures in Digital White Flight Part 2</title>
		<link>http://creativitymachine.net/2007/06/29/further-to-the-myspacefacebook-class-debate/#comment-42451</link>
		<dc:creator>nmrg - blog from the new media research group in RIMAD at the University of Bedfordshire. » Blog Archive » Further adventures in Digital White Flight Part 2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jul 2007 15:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://creativitymachine.net/2007/06/29/further-to-the-myspacefacebook-class-debate/#comment-42451</guid>
		<description>[...] a related post by danah boyd on the 24th, and others engaged with the topic include Henry Jenkins, Jean Burgess and even New Jewish [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] a related post by danah boyd on the 24th, and others engaged with the topic include Henry Jenkins, Jean Burgess and even New Jewish [&#8230;]</p>
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